Question of free items already for sale

[vicky]

Satyr: “There is no question that Vicky deserves to be compensated for her hard work. Since her post declares a purely capitalistic motive in creating trek themed products, it seems that if we want to see more items from her we need to support her by buying what she makes. I bought a copy of her animation myself this weekend, but that doesn't help the next artist who finds herself in the same position.”

Several days have passed and I have calmed down and can offer a purely objective opinion.

The combadge gesture is relatively very easy to create. If someone creates a similar animation and decides to give it away for free, I support that. Yes, I think that is is completely fine that they do so. More important than any one person’s economic gain is that creativity is fostered and encouraged as that is really the foundation of SL.

Similarly, I have seen some items at galaxy, such as uniforms, costumes, objects, etc., that to me seem kind of easy to make if I took a week or two to learn how to make clothing, scripting, etc. So if I decided to try my hand at making yet another grey shouldered DS9 uniform, there is nobody who could stop me.

So if someone wants to open up another gesture vendor in Galaxy with the exact same movements, or decides to give away their animations for free, that is fine. I think it will encourage artists to create even better items while lowering the prices for everyone. I do not feel that I, or anyone, should have a monopoly on any product. By opening up to competition I do feel that it will spark an explosion of creativity.

Looking back, I think part of my outburst is that I had a high emotional attachment to those gestures as those were among the very first things I ever created, and the first items I ever put on the market.

So, finally, if you want to put the other person’s free gesture as part of the welcome package, go ahead. Yes, it will obliterate my own combadge gesture sales, but I can live with that. I have not placed all my eggs in one basket.

A parting comment about the statement that my motives for creating star trek products being *purely* capitalistic: that is not entirely true. I enjoy thinking that people will use these when they roleplay, but I cannot give away my work for nothing. I just don’t understand that way of thinking. Perhaps I will update my RP biography to include a heritage of being part Ferengi.

[Ensign Fiendish Satyr]

Good on you, Vicky! I am glad to see you step up for creative freedom. Also, I offer my apologies for characterizing your motives incorrectly. I found no fault with what I perceived to be your pure profit motive, for what it's worth, but I do stand corrected.

[kahllia]

I can understand Vicky's anger at the situation. The gestures should be returned to vendor, however.

Although I don't have a LOT of experience in SL yet, (been buried in Paint Shop Pro creating facades/textures, and making forays into SL to upload and build), I do understand that there is a complexity that can't be ignored regarding true "intellectual property rights."

If you script a door to open and close, are you the only one who can sell doors that open and close? No. Someone else can learn to script and can make a door that opens and closes, and maybe is reported to have a "latching" sound that accompanies the completion of the closing. Did they violate your rights? No.
The consumer has to evaluate products and choose which best fits their needs. The door with the latching sound may look good, but the door may open and fail to shut. The silent, original door may open, pause for entry/exit, and close. Consumers may purchase both, or get one in a pile of free items. They will compare. They will want to use the one that is best for their purposes.

Gestures can be recreated. That does not mean that they are equal. I have tried many of the pose balls. I love Salsa. Some of the Salsa pose balls do let you dance, or dance as a couple. Some are supposed to do that, but the "couple" thing is more like two people who don't know each other occasionally passing close by as they continue doing their own little dance. Who would I be more interested in getting such a pose ball set from? If the one that allows you to hold hands and twirl and have him wrap his arm around you and pull you close while you dance costs 200L$, and the other is Free, which do you think I would actually prefer? I might get the free one on impulse, but being dissatisfied, I would come back looking for the pose balls that satisfied me the most. I can dance alone any time. If he puts his arm around my waist and holds me and we hold hands as he gives me a twirl, is there any freebie that I would desire more?

Sometimes, consumerism has to have TIME to adjust for experimentation and transcend the urge to get something for nothing.

If I create something unique (my nautical kitchen cabinet set, for example...handles and textures you will find nowhere else), and someone sees it and thinks..."I have PaintShopPro, tooo...I can make something like that," and they do it, I can't really complain. They spent hours working on theirs just as I did mine. But...theirs will not be truly identical to mine unless I gave them permission to take, copy, resell/give away my own product. How many kitchen cabinets can there be, anyway? They all are the same basic thing-one prim with texture facades. How the applications are made (style, colour/scripting--I wish) make the difference.

Keep the anims in vendor store.

I know. This is Star Fleet. Protocols. Chain of command. But that isn't what you are talking about here, really. You are addressing emotions: anger, frustration, confusion based on a situaltional experience.
This has nothing to do with Star Fleet, and everything to do with the process of creation and creative license found in SL, and the world in general, and the choices creators make for the distribution of their goods.
We can both make a bowl. Consumers make the choice of which bowl they want. They also have the right to change their mind, or get both.

[Xenon Darrow]

I am a bit confused about this argument; when a vendor makes something, they may set the product to be no copy, no transfer, and/or no modify. So, the vendor chooses whether they want copies made or transferred or both.

Now, if I get a product that is no copy, and I hack, I have basically committed theft. The same is true for transfer.

It is the responsibility of the vendor to mark their item. As for patent infringement, that doesn't apply here - you have to have a patent for patent infringement to be involved. Because you are using dev tools provided by SL, that would be a tough one.

Copyright infringement might apply, but again, copyright is a funny thing. The big issue is that LL has created dev tools that allow the vendor settings, so the LL law is that violation has occurred if the settings have occurred.

For free items - make them no copy and/or no transfer. Doesn't matter if you are selling them for $0 or $10,000L. You have control of those settings, use them.

Xe

p.s. As an entrepreneur in RL, I am not a fan of limiting products. I am a supporter of approved vendors for selling within a Sim area. We intend to do it in ours as well.

[That Mann]

It appears this discussion needs a little of my input.

Regarding the large number of people who can't find the free tap-the-comm-badge animation:

You can't find it because it does not exist.

The Ensign in question made the animation in question at my request, as a demonstration of his abilities, and because I thought it would be appropriate to include in the new member kit. As soon as we showed it to Admiral Mechanique, he said that the anim was already for sale in the Station, and forbid the free distribution, pending the results of THIS discussion. To the best of my knowledge, the Ensign in question has fully accepted the reason for the command, and has fully complied. As part of turning in his work for his commanding officer's review, he gave me a copy of the anim.
I have not given anyone a copy, in compliance with the Admiral's order.
To date, I have been using it for myself, but in light of this discussion, I am questioning the ethics of using what was to become Official StarFleet-issue equipment for personal purposes. Should I delete it? I would be happy to trade some of my inventions for one of Vicky's anims, as it is undoubtably superior to the thrown-together-in-a-big-hurry anim we're talking about, however, I believe starving students are relatively well-off compared to my circumstances, so I can't afford to buy it.

No offense to anyone, but I find it quite disturbing that Vicky seriously considered giving up, in response to something that was merely rumored to exist. I can't help but wonder how many others are sensitive or vulnerable to the side-effects of rumors. Perhaps we should try to limit or eliminate rumors in general.

So, as I understand it, the question is: should Star Fleet be allowed to distribute items freely as part of the official Star Fleet issued equipment, if a vendor already has a similar item. I say, "yes, provisionally". If it is clear the free item is of significantly AND noticably lower quality, it may actually help the vendor and/or creativity, as the recipient may find themselves enjoying the item, but wishing it was better.

This is the reason it has worked so well to distribute the basic uniforms freely - the ones in the vendors are far superior uniforms, in my opinion. And who doesn't enjoy wearing the uniform? But it could use a better texture/it doesn't look very realistic/it has the comm badge as part of the texture and I want to use my own comm badge/etc and voila! I want a better uniform! Cha-ching! Chalk up another sale for a vendor, and more money for the Galaxy. I think it works well to give out barely-adequate stuff, where there are better items available for sale.

Because everything built officially for Star Fleet Command comes through Logistics, it seems to me that I, as Chief of Logistics, should have a complete list of what is sold in the vendors, so as to insure that I do not begin or continue any projects that would harm an existing vendor. Because I don't intend to make any barely-adequate stuff in Logistics! Of course, you do need to understand that there are many who are quite comfortable with the idea of having "Star Fleet" on the label (i.e. in the group name), but no "Star Fleet" on the inside, and thus, they ignore Star Fleet protocols and procedures by starting building, scripting, animation, or texturing projects without checking with the appropriate officer in charge, and then want to either take the the results directly to an Admiral, or distribute the results to everyone they meet, without any regard for chain-of-command. I cannot be held responsible for the actions and projects of which I am unaware.

As for a minimum price, L$35 is currently roughly a U.S. dime - and last I checked, the price of the Linden was falling.
If we're going to make a minimum price, it should be something higher than virtually-free.
On that basis, I would recommend a minimum price of L$40, to be adjusted for inflation every 6 months.

[vicky]

Well That, yes my initial reaction to someone creating the same gesture that I had created and wanting to give it away for free, was very reactionary.

Anyways, now that much time has passed since hearing about this I still stand by my more mature response which is that whoever did make the other gestures should be allowed to sell them in Galaxy. In other words, I should not have a monopoly on any one animation. Likewise, nobody should have a monolpoly on phaser pistols, clothing, shuttlecraft, skins, etc.

Look at any other roleplay sim, and you'll see the vendor areas are fully capitalistic. This means if you travelled to a Gor sim, you're very likely to see dozens of silk clothing vendors all situated right next to each other. The same is true for furs, neopunk, Victorian, or vampire sims.

I understand that everyone feels very protective about their creations, as I do too. However, its not very realistic one way or the other to expect to completely dominate a market without any competition. Rules or restrictions that aid monopolies are unfair to all. Besides, a person who was blocked from selling at Galaxy could always advertise on the forums and sell their products on slexchange or another sim.

Additionally, there is aproximately 200 members in Galaxy, give or take a dozen or so. How much profit do you really expect to make from such a small market size? Is that amount really worth discouraging the creative energy of those whom you share the same playground with? Are you the only one to be allowed to have a sand castle on the beach?