Okay, now I'm angry...

[Talon Lardner]

While I don't know all the facts yet about this Hazel incident, I find it VERY odd that people like Bogle can mess up a RP like he did with the Stargate RP (refusing to cooperate, ignoring requests by the event leader. getting in the way of others) and not hear a SINGLE FREAKING WORD from the admirality.

Now why didn't I hear any sort of punishment come from that incident?

[Lt. Commander Zed Drebin]

Perhaps we there is more to the Hazel thing than meets the eye. I suggest that anyone who wants to know more should plan to attend the event. Starting witch hunts and pointing out behavior that we don’t like about random people just causes drama and wastes energy.

[Talon Lardner]

Don't get me wrong, I'm HOPING there is more to this than meets the eye, I do hope! It's just that this is the first "trial" that I've seen, and since there isn't any "open communication" going on, all people have to go on is witch hunts and rumors.

[katrinabixby1]

Interesting! I am not aware of any incident during the SG weekend regarding Richard B. I Asked Admiral Cobramax he was not informed of any problem.

Did you file a report? With secruity? Which would be forwarded to the Admiralty? Please share with me any evidence or concern of a personnal, sim or group violation.

There sounds like there has been a siduation that accured that has not been reported!

Lead secruity is Qlet or Chief Tee they may also be able to assist you with any concern.

BTW ..... If something happens and the admiralty is not there how would we get the information? From the Members like you, right?

[Hazel-roo]

I completely object to this trial because I am being singled out as some sort of solitary trouble maker where those who are accusing me are also guilty of crimes.

The difference between them and I is that I LET SH*T GO all the time and they have nothing better to do than b*tch and create drama to make it appear as if they're doing something helpful.

This announcement was poorly executed and is allowing a mob of people to come at me for every little beef they have with me. I know this trial is going to be filled with a lot of PERSONAL problems with me rather than ON SUBJECT material.

Furthermore I was never made aware of which CHARGES I am being accused of so I have no way to defend against blind charges.

I've already had several people come up to me and tell me that Katrina secretly wants me to be kicked out. I know this is not true and is just more bullsh*t propoganda created by the KATRINA COUPS D'ETAT group. I am not going to fall for your tricks again.

I MAKE A MOTION FOR THIS TRIAL TO BE DISSOLVED and EVERYONE MOVE ON AND FORGET THE PAST. LET IT GO.

[Talon Lardner]

katrinabixby1 said:

Interesting! I am not aware of any incident during the SG weekend regarding Richard B. I Asked Admiral Cobramax he was not informed of any problem.

Did you file a report? With secruity? Which would be forwarded to the Admiralty? Please share with me any evidence or concern of a personnal, sim or group violation.

There sounds like there has been a siduation that accured that has not been reported!

Lead secruity is Qlet or Chief Tee they may also be able to assist you with any concern.

BTW ..... If something happens and the admiralty is not there how would we get the information? From the Members like you, right?

Aha! *Smiles* I stand corrected, please, forgive me, as I was unaware that a chain of communication was cut off. I guess I shouldn't assume that communication is always clear and precise, and that I shouldn't assume anything about messages getting to individual people. Please, Katrina, do not take what I said personally. I do know there were reports filed, but I only knew that, they, for all I know, could be in someone's "Give to when online" queue.

Ouch, Hazel... I wasn't aware this was that bad. Unfortunatly, I can not be part of the jury as you and I are good friends.

[Azzy]

talonlardner said:

While I don't know all the facts yet about this Hazel incident, I find it VERY odd that people like Bogle can mess up a RP like he did with the Stargate RP (refusing to cooperate, ignoring requests by the event leader. getting in the way of others) and not hear a SINGLE FREAKING WORD from the admirality.

Now why didn't I hear any sort of punishment come from that incident?

Well it was not only Bogle. It was also Lotan who came in and messed up the RP during the Stargate RP event. Katsu and I did not want to report it at the time seeing as the final Stargate event on that Weds went better then expected from the last two failed attempts.

[Azzy]

katrinabixby1 said:

Interesting! I am not aware of any incident during the SG weekend regarding Richard B. I Asked Admiral Cobramax he was not informed of any problem.

Did you file a report? With secruity? Which would be forwarded to the Admiralty? Please share with me any evidence or concern of a personnal, sim or group violation.

There sounds like there has been a siduation that accured that has not been reported!

Lead secruity is Qlet or Chief Tee they may also be able to assist you with any concern.

BTW ..... If something happens and the admiralty is not there how would we get the information? From the Members like you, right?

It wasn't exactly a violation. More just two officers acting a bit mature during the RP at the time. It wasn't a major crisis for it to be reported ma'am. Just a bit of over-immaturity.

[Talon Lardner]

azriel said:

talonlardner said:

While I don't know all the facts yet about this Hazel incident, I find it VERY odd that people like Bogle can mess up a RP like he did with the Stargate RP (refusing to cooperate, ignoring requests by the event leader. getting in the way of others) and not hear a SINGLE FREAKING WORD from the admirality.

Now why didn't I hear any sort of punishment come from that incident?

Well it was not only Bogle. It was also Lotan who came in and messed up the RP during the Stargate RP event. Katsu and I did not want to report it at the time seeing as the final Stargate event on that Weds went better then expected from the last two failed attempts.

Again, I stand corrected, as the last I heard there was going to be, but I did not hear that it was canceled... Sorry...

But still, some of this stuff is a little frustrating, but I do hope that some good can come from this whole thing... lessons learned from this trial can serve to help have a soother trial when something happens that is really worth fighting about. Overall, my only real complaint about this whole thing is how closed, yet open this trial is, leaving WAY too much room for heresay and rumors and harassment.

[Cinfull Vixen]

hazelroo said:

I completely object to this trial because I am being singled out as some sort of solitary trouble maker where those who are accusing me are also guilty of crimes.

The difference between them and I is that I LET SH*T GO all the time and they have nothing better to do than b*tch and create drama to make it appear as if they're doing something helpful.

This announcement was poorly executed and is allowing a mob of people to come at me for every little beef they have with me. I know this trial is going to be filled with a lot of PERSONAL problems with me rather than ON SUBJECT material.

Furthermore I was never made aware of which CHARGES I am being accused of so I have no way to defend against blind charges.

I've already had several people come up to me and tell me that Katrina secretly wants me to be kicked out. I know this is not true and is just more bullsh*t propoganda created by the KATRINA COUPS D'ETAT group. I am not going to fall for your tricks again.

I MAKE A MOTION FOR THIS TRIAL TO BE DISSOLVED and EVERYONE MOVE ON AND FORGET THE PAST. LET IT GO.

Perhaps I can shed some light to this trial. I haven't been able to get the extra time to log onto this forum to see all what was being said until now. I was in the dark until Lt Drebin brought it to my attention....and btw thankyou, you are a good friend Ok right from the horse's mouth....here goes
It was not my idea to have this trial to begin with. I agreed to it thinking it would give Bellow a chance to defend himself before any action was taken. It would give him a chance to have a juror of his peers decide if Bellow is guilty or not.

Now to answer Bellow's comments:

"The difference between them and I is that I LET SH*T GO all the time and they have nothing better to do than b*tch and create drama to make it appear as if they're doing something helpful"

Of course you do Bellow, if you do the damage why wouldnt you want to let it go? Sure, move on and hope everyone forgets...


The charges are violation of sim AND TOS rules. This has nothing to do with an RP, with Bogle and no... its not personal, well at least its not for me. I wouldve been happy to settle it the normal way, a meeting with Bellow, his CO and/or counselor and the admirals. But I was denied in my verbal attempt to cancel this circus of a trial.

"I've already had several people come up to me and tell me that Katrina secretly wants me to be kicked out. I know this is not true and is just more bullsh*t propoganda created by the KATRINA COUPS D'ETAT group. I am not going to fall for your tricks again."

Bellow, first of all, you were not here, nor a part of any of the discussions that took place in the incident with Katrina. Just because we dont kiss a** doesn't mean we are against anyone or started a rumor that Katrina is against you. Whether or not its true, dont always assume you know the source of the comment. Maybe you shoud take your head out and you'll learn something sometimes.
Come on assistant lead counselor, what do they always teach in science? Do your research, identify the problem, state your hypothesis based on the research you've done, conduct the experiment (observe with a unbiased eye), and reach a conclusion.

[katrinabixby1]

Ty for clearing up why I still dont know about any problem from the SG week end RP. That it was not reported, so certainly there can be no comparison.

As far as any of this being a Circus that was never the intent. There have been numerous accounts of complaints against Hazel Bellows, He has been counseled, talked to, band from the sim for 24 hrs at least twice.

So those old issues will not be brought up in the trial. Only the current issue.

However, the admiralty was told of a infringement against others, Allegedly by H. Bellows. After a few notes on the issue, I asked one of the plaintiffs, Cinful Vixen what would she like us to do about it. I received as requested a detailed note of the charges and the recommendation that H. Bellows be ejected from he group and band from the sim.

I copy of this note was given to H. Bellows BTW. In an effort to be fair, and open we decided to hold a trial. Allow the membership participation.

Unbeknown to most only one person has been ejected from the group and that was for complete insubordination. And they were ejected by Admiral Cobramax not me.

If the membership would prefer the admiralty to handle these type of request and eject members or band them with out the general membership input, I will do it.

This is an effort to serve the membership not create a circus, BTW I think a Circus would be a good themed weekend event, sounds fun.

Back to the subject. Had I held a closed trial and ejected this member Iam sure I would be called a dictator, so again it continues we are Da___d if we do and Da____d if we dont!

There are two others that will be repremanded for actions. We have evidence, pictures, chat logs etc. However just like Hazel we will talk with the defendants, maybe recommend counseling
or give temporary band. And after so many lead up to a trail. Or of course if the membership prefers the admiralty to make that decision we will.

[Hazel-roo]

Imagine my surprise when I recieved a letter from Cinfull Vixen stating she was pulling out of the trial because she was concerned she and her friends would get dirty as well in all of this.
I don't want to throw mud but I am being forced to defend myself. Additionally I have to choose between letting myself fry or someone else who has apologized to me and refused to testify against me. I am doing my best to seperate Cinfull's innappropriate behavior from someone elses, but this is going to be very difficult.
Imagine my surprise when several hours later I read a forum posting by Cinfull Vixen in which she still appears to be in Full Arms mode against me. These do not sound like the words of a person who hours before announced she was pulling out of the trial.

The letter reads below:

To: FAdm Bixby, Adm Mechanique, Lt Jg Bellow
Re: Vixen vs Bellow trial
Stardate: 061013

I am writing this letter with no less emotion than that of when I wrote the recommendation letter to the Admirals to remove and bann Lt Jg Bellow from the group. I, Lt Cmdr Cinfull Vixen, formally withdraw from the trial effective immediately, upon receipt of this letter, for 2 reasons.
The intention of a trial, per say, normally is to give the accused a fair attempt to reclaim his innocense by proving he did not do what he was allegedly accused of doing. He must prove this to a jury of his peers, unbiased and indifferent. They too must meet a certain criteria before being selected. With the amount of information exposed during general meetings, through notecards, and through IMs i feel the task of finding anyone fit to serve on the jury will not be something easily done within two days.
The second reason, more of why I am withdrawing is because of the potential damage it can do to Galaxy, its members, and more importantly the ones involved. The more I think of this trial, the more I see and hear of those who protest against the proceedings, the more i see it as an arena for bashing each other, me trying to prove Bellow did violate sim and TOS rules, and Bellow trying to defend himself and discredit my claims. As I am NOT the person responsible for putting this trial together, I am ultimately responsible as a senior starfleet officer to do what I feel is right. I have tried to verbally withdraw from this trial and suggested to conduct it as a meeting amongst the senior officers. I was denied in my verbal request to Fadm Bixby. Furthermore, when Fadm Bixby was the one who thought of the trial and presented it to me, it looked like a good idea if its set to do what a trial is to do. But after she accuse me of "joining in on make the make Katrina unpopular train, the prosecuting hazel.." or leading the group "down a unfriendly trail", I find no reason not to withdraw as it is not my intention to do what i am accused of doing. If I will be denied again, now formally withdrawing by letter, then I accept whatever the admirals see fit for my punishment. I feel dragged into this mess and unable to get out without a fight. Again the trial was not my idea and I see no reason to go forward with it if it will harm the group.
I do not withdraw my charges against Bellow, as he did do what I accused him of. In the past there has been a meeting amongst the officer accused, the admirals and a counselor in the least. Perhaps we can employ this procedure again on Saturday. Please let me know what you decide to do.

Lt Cmdr Vixen

Imagine my surprise when even upon hearing that the plaintiff herself has decided to drop the issue Katrina has insisted that the trial will continue. Now I am not a legal expert, but when the judge brings the charges against you instead of a plaintiff... isn't that a Kangaroo Court?

[Hazel-roo]

cinfullvixen said:

Of course you do Bellow, if you do the damage why wouldnt you want to let it go? Sure, move on and hope everyone forgets...

Oh no no... I'm not talking about the things I have done. I'm talking about the things you have done to me. Yes, I have filed one report against you, but I keep looking the other way everytime you stick your nasty nose into mine and other people's business.

Bellow, first of all, you were not here, nor a part of any of the discussions that took place in the incident with Katrina. Just because we dont kiss a** doesn't mean we are against anyone or started a rumor that Katrina is against you. Whether or not its true, dont always assume you know the source of the comment. Maybe you shoud take your head out and you'll learn something sometimes.

I did not have to be part of any discussions to know what was going on. I have eyes. I can read. Your friends have provided chat logs to everyone in SLQ of the meeting that took place. What I saw was an attempt by you to gain more power and influence without any regard to Katrina's safety. Her and Cobramax have created this group. There is no way to split them apart. They don't play by the real Starfleet regulations and that has been clear from day 1. The intent of this group is to have fun and you my dear have been doing your d*mnedest to make it unfun. Being the leader of the academy you have taken a position which will allow you to breed hate between the members and of the admirality, because you insist on making this work instead of play. If you want to call me a kiss ass for supporting Katrina instead of you, so be it. I will never support you so long as you are more nasty acting than Katrina ever was.

[katrinabixby1]

Actually it depends on the State you are in. In California, if the plaintiff refuses to procecute the state may. It was a error about the note from Cinful I did receive it. Was in recent inventory, "my bad".
I think the trial should proceed. I have 5 names of ppl who have contacted me to volunteer. This took time and effort on their part and mine. Again I spend time with a Hazel issue.

Every time group leads, such as myself and Cinfull spend time on a member, over and over with problems, it takes from the group over all. At some time it has to stop!

What do you recommend Hazel! We let you continue to break the rules? It certainly cant be co-incidence that your are often involed in the complaints from members?

[Cinfull Vixen]

hazelroo said:

Imagine my surprise when I recieved a letter from Cinfull Vixen stating she was pulling out of the trial because she was concerned she and her friends would get dirty as well in all of this.
I don't want to throw mud but I am being forced to defend myself. Additionally I have to choose between letting myself fry or someone else who has apologized to me and refused to testify against me. I am doing my best to seperate Cinfull's innappropriate behavior from someone elses, but this is going to be very difficult.
Imagine my surprise when several hours later I read a forum posting by Cinfull Vixen in which she still appears to be in Full Arms mode against me. These do not sound like the words of a person who hours before announced she was pulling out of the trial.
Imagine my surprise when I learned that Cinfull Vixen did not send the letter to Katrina or Cobramax. The letter reads below:

To: FAdm Bixby, Adm Mechanique, Lt Jg Bellow
Re: Vixen vs Bellow trial
Stardate: 061013

I am writing this letter with no less emotion than that of when I wrote the recommendation letter to the Admirals to remove and bann Lt Jg Bellow from the group. I, Lt Cmdr Cinfull Vixen, formally withdraw from the trial effective immediately, upon receipt of this letter, for 2 reasons.
The intention of a trial, per say, normally is to give the accused a fair attempt to reclaim his innocense by proving he did not do what he was allegedly accused of doing. He must prove this to a jury of his peers, unbiased and indifferent. They too must meet a certain criteria before being selected. With the amount of information exposed during general meetings, through notecards, and through IMs i feel the task of finding anyone fit to serve on the jury will not be something easily done within two days.
The second reason, more of why I am withdrawing is because of the potential damage it can do to Galaxy, its members, and more importantly the ones involved. The more I think of this trial, the more I see and hear of those who protest against the proceedings, the more i see it as an arena for bashing each other, me trying to prove Bellow did violate sim and TOS rules, and Bellow trying to defend himself and discredit my claims. As I am NOT the person responsible for putting this trial together, I am ultimately responsible as a senior starfleet officer to do what I feel is right. I have tried to verbally withdraw from this trial and suggested to conduct it as a meeting amongst the senior officers. I was denied in my verbal request to Fadm Bixby. Furthermore, when Fadm Bixby was the one who thought of the trial and presented it to me, it looked like a good idea if its set to do what a trial is to do. But after she accuse me of "joining in on make the make Katrina unpopular train, the prosecuting hazel.." or leading the group "down a unfriendly trail", I find no reason not to withdraw as it is not my intention to do what i am accused of doing. If I will be denied again, now formally withdrawing by letter, then I accept whatever the admirals see fit for my punishment. I feel dragged into this mess and unable to get out without a fight. Again the trial was not my idea and I see no reason to go forward with it if it will harm the group.
I do not withdraw my charges against Bellow, as he did do what I accused him of. In the past there has been a meeting amongst the officer accused, the admirals and a counselor in the least. Perhaps we can employ this procedure again on Saturday. Please let me know what you decide to do.

Lt Cmdr Vixen

Imagine my surprise when even upon hearing that the plaintiff herself has decided to drop the issue Katrina has insisted that the trial will continue. Now I am not a legal expert, but when the judge brings the charges against you instead of a plaintiff... isn't that a Kangaroo Court?

*shakes her head*
Imagine my reaction when I read Bellow's post and realize that not only is he now assistant lead counselor but that he cannot read and comprehend what he is reading. I'm glad you posted my letter. This makes it easier for all to see what I really said vs. what you understand it to be.
Perhaps you should join the academy Bellow, I can add a reading course for you. Let me explain...when you say "Imagine my surprise when I recieved a letter from Cinfull Vixen stating she was pulling out of the trial because she was concerned she and her friends would get dirty as well in all of this." Let me see if I can translate what sentence you might have gotten that conclusion from...could it be when I said, "The second reason, more of why I am withdrawing is because of the potential damage it can do to Galaxy, its members, and more importantly the ones involved" or could it be when I said this.." The more I think of this trial, the more I see and hear of those who protest against the proceedings, the more i see it as an arena for bashing each other, me trying to prove Bellow did violate sim and TOS rules, and Bellow trying to defend himself and discredit my claims" or should I use my rl counselor skills and analyze this to mean that when I refer to Galaxy's membership and you refer to it as my friends, is it safe to assume that Bellows feel the membership are all my friends and he feels left out, rejected, abandoned or "unpopular"? There are some subconscious feelings that you need to deal with my friend, but i suggest you seek rl help not sl
Hmmm.. when you say, "Imagine my surprise when even upon hearing that the plaintiff herself has decided to drop the issue Katrina has insisted that the trial will continue." and "Imagine my surprise when several hours later I read a forum posting by Cinfull Vixen in which she still appears to be in Full Arms mode against me. These do not sound like the words of a person who hours before announced she was pulling out of the trial."
would you happen to be refering to where I said this? "I do not withdraw my charges against Bellow, as he did do what I accused him of. In the past there has been a meeting amongst the officer accused, the admirals and a counselor in the least. Perhaps we can employ this procedure again on Saturday" Well I would be surprised too Bellow if I understood the letter to say the opposite. ;D I hope it makes sense now why i appear to be in Full arms mode.
Btw assistant lead counselor, I did give the letter to the admirals. You have to get your facts straight before posting. And another thing, never post a letter concerning a trial especially when you are the defendant, there is a thing about confidentiality. I hope we can get some training in this week. Its a wonder you made it this far...